(ambient music) - [Narrator] This program was made possible by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you, thank you.

- [Narrator] "It's Your Business with Michael Aikens" is brought to you by WCTE PBS and the Tennessee Tech Center for Rural Innovation, with funding provided by the Rural Reimagined Grand Challenge.

- The world of entrepreneurship can be a difficult world to navigate, but that is the purpose of this show, to bring stories from the people who have been on both sides of the coin, for building up the courage to take that first step, to navigating through the process, and ultimately to achieve their dream of owning their own business.

Join us as we meet these brave entrepreneurs and learn from their journeys.

(ambient music) If starting a business seems too intimidating to attempt on your own, then maybe you can consider a business partner.

After owning individual businesses in the past, two friends in Jamestown, Tennessee felt that their talents and interests complimented each others in a way that could make them great business partners, even bringing in a third partner to help seal the deal.

And now, their business is thriving and growing, and they can't wait to see what the future holds.

(rock music) We're here in Jamestown, Tennessee with owners of Mill Brothers Sawmill, Chris Riley and Chris Hammock.

Guys, welcome to the show.

- Thanks for having us, Michael.

- Yeah, thanks.

- So let's get started, tell us about Mill Brothers.

What do you all do here?

- So Mill Brothers started as a portable sawmill operation.

As we got a location, we ended up doing in-house service as well.

So that looks like either people bring logs to us, we mill them here, or we go to their farm, land, onsite, and we mill them for them.

And then as it goes, we ship it into doing some custom retail.

And so one of the niche things that we do is a lot of things that you can't buy at a package store.

We can custom cut whatever you need for your project.

- So you started out as a mobile milling operation, now you have your own location, and I'm looking around, there's so much activity, there's bulldozers, there's trucks going down the highway.

Tell me, I think that this place is probably strategically located.

- It's probably been one of the reasons why we've been so successful at what we're doing 'cause of the exposure that we have to the community here.

- So you get exposure from your location, and I'm also thinking that you all are shipping all over the place, tell me about who your customers are, who do you sell to, where are they?

- So actually most of what we do is fairly local.

So one of the things that we kind of pride ourselves in and that we really care about is trying to make sure that trees that have to be cleared and have to be taken down, get to go on to kind of meet their full potential.

So a lot of the logs that we end up harvesting are from local loggers, local tree services, and we actually end up cutting for a lot of local people.

So we don't ship too far.

Most of what we do goes right to local consumers.

- So, how are you finding your customers?

Who do you know how to sell to, and how did you do that?

- So a lot of it's Facebook marketplace.

A lot of our portable service that we do on site has been word of mouth, but recently through online, we've been able to capture a few clients to be able to do portable service for 'em.

- Social media has been a really big thing for us.

And also one of the things that we've tried to really cultivate as a company is a place that people feel very comfortable stopping by.

We wanted to be a direct to consumer company, so everything that we've done, we wanted to cultivate a look and a field that felt inviting to where you can stop by any anytime and feel welcome.

- Customers call in and we don't necessarily think that we have to have every sale, it may not be what we do.

We'll refer to the different sawmill.

And just being open to refer, I think it goes a long way and not have to think that you're a guy to get every piece of business that you can.

- And truthfully, it's been a really big blessing to us.

A lot of the local sawmills have really kind of taken us in and send people our way, we send people their way.

And we've tried to come in and sort of a niche market in something that wasn't already answered.

So we didn't try to step on anyone's toes, and I think it's worked out really well.

- So that niche market, tell me a little bit more about that, marketing 101, it's all about finding that target customer, that niche.

How did you all find it and how did you know when you had found it?

- I think from the get-go coming in with portable service, it wasn't something that was offered, and if it was, it wasn't really companies offering portable service.

One of the things that we've been able to do that a lot of other sawmills don't is custom size things.

So whether it's a 14-foot two by three for a project or some odd size that is not readily available.

- It's also just understanding what the customer wants, 'cause they're saying they need it, let's offer that.

And it's been a really good opportunity.

You just listen to the customer, and they'll tell you everything you need to know.

- So you're listening to your customers, you've found your niche, how did you actually start a sawmill?

How does somebody just say one day, "I'm gonna start a sawmill," and then all of a sudden, you've got it, how did you do that?

- Yeah, so kind of a unique story.

A couple weeks before we actually started the company, before we got our first mill, I had never seen a sawmill operate.

I come from kind of an entrepreneurial background, I've had a few businesses, and I was in the process of selling one, and I found out what this machine was at my daughter's birthday party.

A friend of mine was over, and my mother and I were actually looking for a piece of equipment to invest in for the farm.

And we wanted to build stuff.

We knew that we'd like to be able to harvest our own lumber.

And so I saw what it was, started looking into it, thought maybe I'll start a side hustle and sell some lumber if I get one.

And I had told Chris a few months before, I said, "Hey, if we ever had a business idea together, "I think we'd actually do really well together."

We're total opposite personalities, we get along great.

And it felt like an interesting chemistry, and we've been friends for a long time.

And so when he called me and said, "Hey, basically my life is a little more flexible "than it was before."

I said, "Great, I'm coming to your house."

And so I showed up at his house, said, "I think maybe we should see "about starting a company together, "let's work it around a sawmill."

- And that day, we had a name, and then we figured out what we need to do about getting a mill and how we're gonna fund it.

And then, within a couple of weeks that we had the mill lined up, and from there we're just learning as much as we can.

- Which, for the record I wanna say, we dove in deep, and so we've got really proficient very quickly.

- Tell me about your different skill sets and how you actually make it work?

- So I'm production, I've been a production manager for quite a few years.

I've own my own business, a roofing business.

And so my mindset is all production-based, geared towards getting as much product out and as great quality as possible.

And that's my strong suit for sure.

- Yeah, I'm a small details person.

I started as a photographer and graphic designer, owned a coffee shop, did a handful of musical like projects and producing music.

So everything I do is about little details and the way it looks, the way it feels, how we come across to our customers.

So I really came from more of a branding perspective with the company.

- I'm seeing a lot of machinery, a lot of heavy equipment around here.

How did you all actually acquire this?

- So to start the company, it was an initial investment from all of us, and then most recently, we actually just upgraded our mill to a bigger, wider cutting mill.

And a portion of that actually was from the Tennessee Agricultural grant we got to take advantage of, which is great.

- So speaking of the agriculture grant, there's a lot of resources available for small businesses out here, like the Small Business Development Center, the Biz Foundry, and many others.

Have y'all leveraged any of those resources?

- So we've worked with Tyler Asher from the Small Business Development Center.

He's come out and give us opinions of what he thinks may work and may not work, what he's seen in the industries that we are in.

So it's been helpful to work with him.

We've also worked with the state, trying to figure out how to best utilize those grants too.

- A lot of people are many times aware of resources like Small Business Development Center, but they're hesitant, for whatever reason, to take advantage of those resources.

What would you say to them?

- Yeah, I think they've been super friendly and super helpful, and they're also just great at answering what they can and can't do, what they do and don't offer, and they offer a lot, honestly, I would say, even just for advice, it's super helpful to have someone else who you can bounce ideas off of.

- They have a lot of resources that we haven't even taken advantage of that I think people may not know about.

It's about knowing what you can and what you may be able to access as a business owner and not being afraid to go take advantage of potentially free services that will help you out.

- Now I understand there's a third partner in this as well, is that correct?

- Yes, so we're two of the three.

My mom's actually the third investor and owner of the company, and she does most of our financial oversight of the company.

- So talk to me a little bit about the dynamics with the three of you all owning the business, especially being friends, being family, what are some of the challenges and also some of the great things about that?

- In my experience, this is the first company I've had really with partners, and I think it honestly pulls the best out of you, because you have three minds coming together on it, and in order to compromise and make a decision, it's probably gonna be the best decision for the company.

- Speak to the local leaders here, what can they do to help support small businesses like yourself?

- Yeah, honestly I think just getting behind and support.

I know that's kind of broad, but truthfully, a lot of times big companies come in, and especially in smaller areas, and they take a lot of jobs and they often end up closing down small businesses.

So I think really whatever it looks like, just being able to get behind your local business owners.

- There's a lot of things though that Ventura County I think does well.

They promote the shop local pretty hard, and the chamber does a good job of doing what they do, and I'm thankful for the people we have in place right now doing what they're doing.

- Absolutely.

- People across the state watch this show, many of them are thinking about small businesses, they're just like you all two years ago, you got an idea, but they really haven't just crossed that fence for whatever reason, what advice would you provide to them?

- I think, one, you have to jump in at some point.

I used this analogy before, "The stronger you get at swimming, "the farther you can swim."

So at some point, you just gotta jump in the pool, you have to jump in the ocean.

But one practical piece of advice that I grew up with, and it's been really helpful, is "Work the job that you don't love "until you can do the one that you do."

So I think being smart and wise financially, it's really smart to have a stable job while you build your side project or your dream job.

But at some point, yeah, you just gotta take the jump.

- Also, I guess some mentorship from people you may know, businesses, books, I mean, use every resource that you have available to you to make that wise choice to jump into it.

- So the last question I wanna ask you, I love asking everybody, thinking about two years ago when you first started, what do you all know now that you wish you knew then?

- So probably accounting, having a better understanding of what the financial side of a business, how it operates.

Going into it with a better understanding would've been great, because there's a lot of things you don't know as a business owner.

If I'd understood that, I think we'd been better off at this point today.

- One of the practical things is just understanding cash flow.

This company handles it a little bit different than previous ones that I've been a part of, and something that I knew before but I've learned even more is just the most important new customer you'll ever get is the one that you already have.

And so taking good care of your customers.

- Chris, Chris, I wanna thank you so much for being on the show, this has been a great interview.

- Oh, thanks so much, Michael.

- Thank you.

(rock music) - When catastrophe hits and your finances are threatened, you want someone in your corner to help guide you through the difficult task ahead and provide a way out.

And that is the concept the Swallows family built their business around back in 1956.

When Matt Swallows stepped into his role in the family business as the third generation, he was determined to make sure his family legacy would carry on for years to come, and the business continues to grow and thrive today.

(ambient music) We're here in Cookeville, Tennessee, speaking with Matt Swallows, President and COO of Swallows Insurance Agency.

Matt, welcome to the show.

- Thank you, thank you for having me.

- Tell us about the insurance agency, what do you do here?

We are an independent insurance agency, and what that means is we represent multiple companies.

We probably have relationships with a hundred companies, and what we do for our clients, we go out and we shop all these carriers to find out what's the best coverage price that fits the person or the business, either one.

- Now, Swallows Agency, it's been around for quite some time, is that correct?

- That is correct, my grandfather, Elmo Swallows started it in 1956 in Livingston.

And so we've been around, this is our 67th year in business, I guess I'm third generation.

And when I started in the agency back in early 2000s, I always heard that most family businesses fail third generation, so I was panicked, I was like, "Oh no, that's me."

So I got my hands on any kind of book about family business I could find and read through 'em and all this and come to find out by that time, it's a family business, usually there's several siblings involved, and it starts to kind of splinter, that's usually where the problems happen.

And luckily for us, it's just me.

So if it fails, it's all on me.

(laughing) - Well, what made you think, "I'm gonna follow in the footsteps of my family "and continue this agency?"

- Growing up as a youngster, you mimic your parents or your dad, you kind of wanna grow 'em to be them, right?

Early on I kind of thought I wanted to do that, but then as you start to mature and become your own person, you think of other things.

And then once I realized the NFL wasn't gonna come calling, I really started getting serious about my future.

One thing that stood out to me that I always admired, wondered about, I guess wanted to mimic, was my dad.

So when we would go on family vacations or we'd just be out as a family and we would drive by business, he would be able to tell us a little bit about that business, how it runs, what makes it tick.

And it just amazed me, how does he know about all these different industries and businesses.

And then as I kind of started to put that together, I'm like, "In the commercial insurance world, "we have to know a lot about every business that we cover."

We gotta know what makes them tick.

And so we know the ins and outs of a lot of different industries, and we have to, we have to study that.

That's one thing that I had always noticed and wanted to be like, wanted to learn.

- What's your approach to professionally developing your employees?

- Education, education, so professional designations, education, that is very important to us.

In the independent insurance agency world, what's called the professional designation, CIC, certified insurance counselor, that's the equivalent of having a master's degree in insurance.

On average, there's less than one per independent agency across the country.

We have 14 on our staff, and we have three or four in the program now.

It's not just a online class that you take a couple hours, and you get some plaque and you make yourself feel good.

It's rather intense, and it's an ongoing thing.

You have to renew that every single year.

I still have to go to class every single year for two and a half days and sit in there, can't play on my phone, they watch you, you sign in every hour.

So it's pretty serious, and we take it serious, because what I tell folks here is, we are protecting someone's livelihood, right?

Their dream, whether it be their home or their business.

And it's not just them, it's not just them and their name on the door.

They have employees, there's families that depend on that business to make sure it's still able to go, it's still is protected.

If they have a loss, we're there to help, we're there to make sure it can continue to thrive and pay the bills and pay paychecks and families can make a living.

- What does leadership mean to you?

How would you describe your leadership style?

- Well, I hope it's lead by example.

(laughing) I mean, I hope so, and I hope they see that I'm willing to do whatever it is.

I mean, even if it's making coffee, taking the trash out, whatever, just leadership by example, caring about your folks.

They're here as much or more than they are with their families.

So we really do try to make it a family environment.

Sometimes they have to go pick up their kids from school, and they're here for an hour or two, and that's okay, that's neat, I like that.

- Why is it so important for small businesses in a rural area instead of maybe going down to a Nashville or Chattanooga or Knoxville market?

- If you can give back to your local community, I mean, that's just what makes it stronger.

That's what makes it thrive.

I mean, I watched, as a youngster, my grandfather used to say it all the time, "Always do business with people that do business with you."

And then, "Always do business locally if you can."

And then I'll watch my dad do the same thing.

I watched him go outta his way to do that.

And we focus on small business and mom and pops, I think that's the fabric of small towns.

So we think it's important, very important.

- Well, what are some other ways that you're giving back to the local community?

- I really wanted to focus on nonprofits.

So we ensure a lot of nonprofits, and in turn, we feel like we give our time to 'em.

I mean, currently serve on the YMCA board I have for several years.

My wife, she's chairman of Upper Cumberland Child Advocacy Center.

We've served several other boards.

We been pretty involved with the Rescue Mission.

I just think it's important.

When we spoke to the Rescue Mission a few years ago, of course, they have a big strategic capital plan to expand, and I'm sure a lot of folks watching this show have probably noticed as well, the homeless population that we have here.

To us it's huge, right?

I mean, it may not compare to the big cities, but to us it's huge.

And at that point, I remember saying, "Hey, we're starting to have some bigger city problems, "and so we're gonna have to step up as a community "and put our money where our mouth is, as well as our time, "to combat some of these things, "to try to stay ahead of 'em."

So these charities, not just the Rescue Mission, they're doing some wonderful work out there in our community, if we can support those and give back, I think it just makes us a wonderful, I mean, the greatest community in the world, I think.

But I'm a little bias.

(laughing) - Well, thinking about the people that watch this show, a lot of people are watching it and they're thinking, "You know, I've got this idea for a business, "but, for whatever reason, haven't crossed that fence yet."

What advice would you give to them?

- My dad used to always say, "If you love what you do, "you'll never work a day in your life."

So if you're passionate about something, sometimes you have to take a risk.

You have to just put your foot forward and go for it.

And if you love it and you have a passion for it, others will see that, and they'll wanna follow.

I mean, they really will.

If you have a passion for it, go for it.

I mean, you never know until you try.

The old saying is, "Every man dies, but not every man truly lives."

You gotta go for it sometimes.

- You know, when you think about risk, especially with running your business, how do you deal with that personally?

That's gotta be stressful.

- Very stressful, but I mean, anything worthwhile is hard and take some sacrifice, it will keep you up at night, there's no question about that.

But that's also probably what drives you and what drives the business.

And so sometimes you just have to take a risk and good sound judgment and sleep on every big decision.

Take care of your folks, and you'll thrive.

- You're also a family man.

How are you balancing work and life?

- That's tough, that's tough.

(laughing) We're on the go quite a bit.

I mean, my kids are of the age 12 and 10.

I mean, we are kid busy, right?

I mean, that's enough right there.

Just make sure we get enough sleep and try to stay as healthy as we can so we can continue to go.

And hopefully our kids see that we're active and we're involved not just in work, but in the community and other organizations.

And then we're there for them as well, I don't miss things.

That's one thing insurers, I'm not in the ideal spot to serve as president because of the age of my children, that honestly would probably be someone who's a little older and their kids may be outta the house, 'cause it takes some time.

But they've been very open with me, and once we get through a meeting, I'm gone, I don't stick around and chit chat, and I love their company, but I told 'em guys, "If I don't go home, "I don't get to see bedtime, "I don't get to see bath time, and I'm not gonna miss that."

And folks respect that.

I mean, I really think that.

But yeah, it's go, go, go.

I mean, I leave here and go to Chattanooga for an insurers meeting, stay all night, have that board meeting in the morning, drive home.

As soon as I get here, I'm taking my son to basketball practice in Gordonsville, coming back, and my daughter is the lead and her school play at seven o'clock.

So my son's hitching ride somebody home, that's tomorrow, right?

Most days aren't very different, but I wouldn't miss any of it, it's awesome.

- It sounds like you're loving every minute of it.

- It's the greatest gift of life.

- So you're a president, you're a dad, you're community-focused.

Matt, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.

It's a great conversation.

- Thank you, I appreciate it.

And I'd say I'm a dad first, so.

(laughing) (ambient music) (upbeat music) - So I'm Chris Devore.

I have a business called Third Assist Hockey Company.

And my business is an e-commerce business where I sell outdoor, centered, and vintage hockey gear.

One of the things that I learned early on is that you have your specialties, and you have other things that you are not great at.

So I mean, for example, you have to be good at accounting.

You gotta know your legal side, you have to be on the creative side, marketing, all those different features of which I've realized I'm pretty decent at some of them and other ones I need help.

So that's one of the reasons that I reached out.

Being a hockey business, especially a pond hockey business, it's not necessarily a pond hockey hotbed here in Tennessee.

So I moved here two years ago, so that one of the first things that I did is there were resources from where I came, and that was in Maine for young entrepreneurs.

And I wondered if there was something similar here around Cookeville.

So I was able to, when I started doing searching, I just did a quick Google search, and right away the Biz Foundry popped up.

So I contacted the Biz Foundry, told 'em what I was doing, and they said, "Yeah, we can probably help you out, "come in and chat."

So the first person I met was Jeff.

And so Jeff asked me about my business, wanted to know where I was at, what the next steps I was taking were.

And so he was able to introduce me to some of the resources that Biz Foundry have, but also other connections here in the community.

And so through Jeff introduced me to some actual machinery that they own and his connections here in the community, I was able to kind of take those next steps.

One of the projects that I was working on was handcrafted hockey sticks.

So no one else makes wooden hockey sticks that are, one, hand-finished, also that you can customize to whatever you're trying to make.

And so up until this point, I would had a certain way that I was making these hockey sticks, and I had a potential order of 300 hockey sticks.

And of course, this is me, this is a side hustle.

I had to figure out how to do this in an efficient manner.

And he threw out the idea.

And it was one of the ones that I was exploring of engraving.

And so over at the Biz Foundry, they have a laser engraver, of which it's a machine, which I wouldn't have just bought and spent $20,000 on a machine.

So he introduced me to that idea and introduced me to Josh over there who knew how to run the machine, put a hockey stick in it, made a pretty cool product, and through that process, actually sent a sample to the potential customer, they loved it, and I was able to get a pretty big stick order, which boosted the business.

After working with Jeff, I think I worked my way into the network a little bit, and a few people reached out to me, which was great.

So it just took reaching out to one person, and then the rest of the resources started to come my direction.

So all it took was that first step.

And then from there, Andrea reached out to me with the Business Resource Collective.

And from there other resources came about such as photography and graphic design.

And I've been able to use those, again, two skills which I would not say that I possess, and take those skills and apply 'em to my business.

So for anyone who's thinking about trying to use these resources but is hesitant to do so, oh, I'd say just go for it.

I think one of the things I learned early on was taking action.

I think a little too much about taking action, and it's really just shoot an email, make a phone call.

What's the worst that can happen?

I mean, you're gonna get resources, you're gonna make new connections, and you're gonna be able to figure out other opportunities that can potentially expand your business.

So that's the way I've always looked at it.

I think originally I was a little hesitant, but once I started asking those questions and started shooting those emails, it was easy.

I saw that it worked for me and continued on.

So the resources I was able to find here in town between the Biz Foundry, the Business Resource Collective, the Small Business Development Center, between those three, I've been able to take the business kind of the next step, which has been awesome.

It's only been two years since I've been here in town and getting to the point that it has grown substantially.

So for anyone who is potentially thinking about it or knows that they're like me, that they're lacking in certain areas in terms of their skills, I would reach out to the Business Resource Collective.

For anyone who's interested to get started up or has questions like I did, reach out to the Business Resource Collective at brcollective.org.

- Thanks for tuning in to "It's Your business."

For more information on today's topics, please visit the WCTE website.

To learn more about free small business resources and expert assistance, visit the Business Resource Collective website.

And until next time, I'm Michael Aikens.

(cheerful guitar music) (whimsical music) - [Narrator] "It's Your Business with Michael Aikens" is brought to you by WCTE PBS and the Tennessee Tech Center for Rural Innovation, with funding provided by the Rural Reimagined Grand Challenge.

(ambient music) - [Narrator] This program was made possible by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you, thank you.